專訪Royce White 與 精神病 (2)

以下是#1H2auwUL 原文的下半部分... 同樣是節錄 http://tinyurl.com/bcd58bf (同一個連結) (The morning after I meet White,...此段未翻譯) However, there's a much larger issue at play here, and it's unrelated to the game of basketball. It has to do with White's wider view on how mental illness — both his own, and those of others — is destroying the fabric of modern living. He's obsessed with the idea that no one wants to accept the "reality" of a profound social crisis he sees everywhere, infiltrating every aspect of culture and killing us softly. 現在有個(比上一段提到的他不出賽的問題)更大的問題---跟籃球無關的問題--- 就是White如何看待精神病---不管是他自己的還是其他人的--- 似乎都在挑戰著現代的生活方式. 他認定大家都不願面對現實 接受他看到的潛在社會危機(在#1H2auwUL最後有提過) 這個危機可是無所不在,不知不覺中一步一步帶領我們走向死亡... White's language is intense and discursive. Though usually well delivered, his statements toggle between progressive common sense and difficult-to-decipher, contradictory aphorisms. For example: The crux of White's demand to the Rockets is that he needs his own personal doctor to decide whether he's in the right mental frame of mind to play a game or attend practice. That seems reasonable — until you consider what would happen if all 400-plus players in the NBA made the same request (for both mental and physical ailments). It would reinvent the power dynamic, effectively allowing players to dictate when they were healthy enough to participate. White的發言很熱血但也經常轉移話題---雖然都有一番見解,但經常上一句內容是 大家都懂的常識,下一句就成了我很難理解又矛盾的深奧格言. 例如: White向火箭隊要求他要有自己的專屬醫生來決定他是否目前心神狀況 適合出賽或參加練習. 這聽起來似乎也不無道理---但你想想假如 400多位NBA球員都提出這個請求(心理或生理上)--那豈不是出賽與否都由每個球員 自己所主宰? But White doesn't see it like that. 但White不這麼認為 Except that he does. "My request was to have an addendum to my contract," he begins. "Now, would that set a precedent? That's not really my thing. I asked for something to be put into my contract. Not something for all players to use." White:我的請求是在我的合約裡加上附加條款. 這樣就會首開先例(而導致 大家都提出這請求?) 這才不是我想看到的,我提出的請求是加在我的合約上, 不是其他所有人的. But then he continues talking. And this is where it becomes difficult to see how White and the Rockets will ever find real common ground, even if he eventually ends up on their roster. 不過他又開始繼續談這個話題---這話題大概就是他和火箭隊難以達成共識的原因吧 "But if you want to talk about it through that lens, every player should have their own doctor. The reality is that American businesses are built on the idea of cutting overhead. And how do we cut overhead?" White points to the door that leads from the patio to the main restaurant. "Why do restaurants put exit signs over every exit? I bet if Cheesecake Factory didn't have to do that, they wouldn't. Because it would cost less to do nothing. They have to be forced to do that. So if a team or a business can save money by making things less safe, they're going to do that. They don't care. It's a conflict of interest to have the team doctor paid by the team. What we need is a doctor who can look at a situation and say, 'Listen, I know the team wants you to do this, and I know their doctor is saying you should do this. But as a non-biased doctor with no interest in how you perform athletically, I recommend differently.' Right now, you have players pushing themselves back in three weeks who have three-month injuries." White表示: "假如你一定要從那個角度出發的話--的確每個球員都應該有他們的專屬醫生 但事實呢? 美國的商業就是奠基於減少開銷上. 所以要怎樣省錢?" White指著通往主餐廳的門: "為啥餐廳在每個出口上都要標示'這是出口'?我敢打賭要是Cheesecake Factory(餐廳名) 可以不用這麼作(標示出口)的話,他們就不會這麼作. 因為這樣比較省錢. 除非被法律所迫不然他們不可能會作. 所以假如一個團隊或公司可以因為忽略 某些安全環節而省錢的話,他們就會這麼作.他們才不管安全什麼的. 所以我認為有從隊上領薪水的隊醫是很矛盾的. 我們需要的是一種中立的醫生,他會力排眾議告訴你: '聽著,我知道這個隊想要你這樣作,他們的隊醫也說你應該這樣作, 但身為一個對你在場上表現如何沒有利害關係的中立醫生,我覺得你應該這樣這樣...' 而現在,不少球員明明受了應該休養三個月的傷,三周就被推上場..." I ask him if he understands why NBA owners might be reluctant to give players that level of input into when they're ready to play basketball, particularly for a disease that's invisible (and arguably subjective). 我問他是否了解為什麼NBA老闆們不怎麼願意提供這種等級的服務給一個 "看起來"應該已經可以上場打球的球員---尤其你的病是看不到的(而且是主觀的) "I'm always going to run into problems with people who think business is more important than human welfare," he replies. "對於把商業利益放在人權前面的人,我們之間會產生問題不意外" White表示 Part of what makes White so baffling (and, to his detractors, so infuriating) is the degree to which he seems totally normal. He concedes this is part of the problem, perception-wise; he says he's thought about his condition so much that he can now control it, most of the time. But that control makes it difficult for him to illustrate how he's different from any normal person who tends to get more nervous than necessary. For instance, it's not that White cannot bear to step on an airplane; he's taken dozens and dozens of flights throughout his short career, including one to Italy to play an exhibition for Iowa State. He just deeply hates the experience of flying (and says that he's racked with anxiety for several hours before takeoff, which is worse than the flight itself). White also hates driving and constantly scans the road for "threats," but that doesn't mean he can't drive (in the Real Sports segment, we see him calmly operating a vehicle with only one hand on the wheel). When I speak with him at the Cheesecake Factory, he seems more composed than many other celebrities and athletes I've interviewed in the past. But this, he insists, proves nothing except the complexity of his dilemma. "Everything is tied to my mental illness," he tells me. "It's like when you have arthritis: Even when you're not hurting, you're worried about when you will hurt next. It's always related." White讓人感覺如此莫名其妙的原因(對於討厭他的人來說:讓他們氣炸的原因) 就是他某種程度上看起來明明就很正常,他也同意這是問題的一部分. 他說他現在大部分的時候可以控制他的症狀---但這反而讓其他人更難理解 他是怎樣比別人更神經質. 例如說,White並不是怕到完全無法踏上飛機--他其實在他短暫的籃球生涯中 搭過不少次的飛機,其中也包含從美國飛義大利的. 他只是非常討厭坐飛機的感覺---並且他登機前數小時都會非常焦慮,這比搭機本身還糟糕 White也很討厭開車--當他開車時會不停巡視路面試圖發現有什麼會威脅到他的東西. 但這也不表示他不能開車---(在Real Sports segment中,我們可以看到他鎮定的單手開車) 當我和他在Cheesecake factory聊天時,他看起來比我以前訪談過的名人和運動員都還鎮定. 但是他堅持,這一切都代表他的困境到底有多麼複雜. White說:"所有東西都和我的精神病糾纏不清,就像你得了關節炎一樣: 就算當你不痛的時候,你也會擔心你下一次什麼時候又會發作..." White's problems began at age 16, in a cabin outside of Minneapolis, on the first (and only) day he ever smoked marijuana. The episode may superficially seem like a standard case of weed-induced paranoia, but that's not how it felt to White. "I think it was in Forest Lake, Minnesota," he recalls. "I had an out-of-body experience. It felt like I was watching myself have the experience. It was so traumatic for me, and I had such a bad reaction, I started having panic attacks for the next two or three months, in rapid succession. Sometimes two or three a day." White的毛病起於16歲,當時他第一次(也是唯一一次)吸食大麻. 雖說吸大麻產生幻覺沒什麼奇怪的,但是White不這麼認為: "我覺得我靈魂出竅了,我好像"站在我自己旁邊" 看到我自己正在絕頂升天...這是個令我很受傷的經驗 ...那之後兩三個月我開始有頻繁的恐慌症發作...有時一天兩三次 The son of a cosmetologist and a social worker, White was prescribed Prozac at the age of 18 (he's still on it today). Having won Minnesota state basketball titles with two different teams in high school, he initially attended the University of Minnesota but never played a game for the Gophers, transferring in the wake of two off-the-court incidents. He announced his "retirement" from the sport on YouTube but eventually transferred to Iowa State, where he flourished under coach Fred Hoiberg (a man White clearly admires). White 18歲開始處方服用Prozac(抗憂鬱藥物)直到現在. 他曾在兩個不同的高中拿過Minnesota州的籃球冠軍,之後 他先上了Minnesota大學但從未為他們的球隊出賽過. 在兩次球場外的事件後轉隊. 他也曾在Youtube上表示他要"退休"了,但總之 他後來又轉到Iowa州,在教練Fred Hoiberg (White顯然很尊敬他)的帶領下嶄露頭角 Somewhat surprisingly, White does not deny that he could play for Houston right now, if that were his decision. He could handle the travel, at least in the short-term. "I probably could do it," he says. "But what would the effect be? What would I have left at the end of the season? How good would I be for the team during the season?" 令人意外的,White不否認他現在就可以為火箭效力---假如是他自願的話 他至少短期內可以忍受四處奔波. White:"我大概辦的到吧,但會有什麼結果呢?我在球季末會變得怎麼樣呢?? 我為球隊能發揮什麼功用呢???" His argument, in essence, is that just being able to withstand something does not mean it's reasonable and healthy. He doesn't think that a person's mere ability to manage stress detracts from its corrosive nature. That's undeniably true. But here again, a conflict emerges from the specific lifestyle White is involved with: The demands of his chosen profession are utterly abnormal. Which leads to another unusual exchange … 他的論述大意是說, 可以忍受某件事情不代表那件事情是合理/健康的. 他也不認為一個人可以忍受壓力的能力會讓一件事的本質不那麼腐敗. 他說的是沒錯,但他的要求實在是太不正常........ (以下是第二次的訪談, 訪問者= K, White = W) What if stress is just part of it? K: 如果壓力也只不過是(職業生涯)其中的一部分呢? What does that mean, "It's just part of it"? That's like saying people getting killed is just part of war. W: 什麼叫"也只不過是其中的一部分"? 這樣好比說戰爭中殺人也只不過是戰爭的一部分 But people getting killed is part of war. That's the downside of war. K: 呃,沒錯啊,會死人本來就是戰爭的一部分嘛.只是不好的那一部分 It doesn't have to be, though. We choose that. When you say, "That's just part of it," it implies that this is natural. Volcanoes don't kill human beings. Volcanoes kill human beings because human beings build houses right next to them. W: 但是那並不必然,那是人作出的選擇而然. 當你說 "那只是其中的一部分" 代表那是自然發生的. 例如火山爆發並不是天生就會殺死人類的. 火山爆發會死人的原因是因為人類把房子蓋在火山上. Yes. But when I ask, "What if stress is just part of it?" I'm really asking, "What if it's just part of the choice that society has made?" It may be problematic, but what if we've all agreed that this problematic thing is part of the experience of being involved in a rarefied profession? K: 是的,但當我問你"如果如果壓力也只不過是其中的一部分呢?" 我意思是"如果這就是整體社會所作的選擇呢?", 可能這決策是有問題的 ,但如果大家都同意這個有問題的環節是進入這職業殿堂的必經之路... That's fine. But don't act like this wasn't a choice. W:那還可以,但別裝成好像這不是決定出來的. So what would you have done if, upon drafting you, the Rockets had said this: "Look — this is going to be hard for you. It might, in fact, be detrimental. But that is just part of competing at this sport at this level." K: 那假如說,火箭隊在選秀後就先給你打預防針: "聽好---這可能對你有點難,可能有害,但這只是在這個最高殿堂競爭的一部分" 你會怎麼作? You can't do that, though. You can't discriminate against somebody, because that's ADA6 law. People say I'm getting special treatment, but it's the NBA who wants special treatment. They want to say they're this rarefied profession where laws don't apply. But ADA law is federal. I've always said the NBA should have a mental health policy. I didn't know they didn't have one, until I got drafted. But the NCAA doesn't have one, either … I had to sit my first year at Iowa State, because there was no mental health protocol. I transferred on the basis of mental health issues. Both my doctor and my psychiatrist wrote letters to the NCAA that said my staying at Minnesota would not be healthy, because I'd just been through a three-month case where I was targeted by police for a crime I was not guilty of, and that I needed a fresh start. Because I have a mental illness. But the NCAA denied my waiver. 他們不能這樣作. 因為這是歧視,違反 ADA(Americans With Disabilities Act., 美國殘疾人法案)法的. 人們說我想要特殊待遇,但想要特殊待遇的是NBA---他們想說在這個專業運動的殿堂上 這法不適用, 但是ADA法是聯邦法. 我總說NBA應該有關於處理精神疾病方面的政策. 而直到我被選上後我才知道他們沒有. NCAA也沒有... 我在Iowa州的第一年只能坐板凳,因為沒有處理精神方面問題的機制. 我轉隊的原因也是這樣. 我的醫生和心理醫生都寫信給NCAA說我繼續待在Minnesota對我是有害的, 因為我才為了一個犯人根本不是我的案子剛被警察盯了三個月,我需要一個地方讓我 重新出發....因為我有精神病. 但NCAA拒絕了我的waiver. What was the NCAA's argument? K: NCAA怎麼說? They didn't really have one. They said it was my choice to transfer. W: 沒說啥,只說要不要轉隊是你家的事 -- ◆ From: 118.168.123.82 謝謝尼 這我還真不知道@口@ 02/01 16:44
※ 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1359644143.A.73C.html

推 shyshy :其實他很聰明阿 我覺得他講話蠻有道理的 01/31 22:57

→ shyshy :但就是跟這社會脫節 想太多無法改變的事實 01/31 22:58

→ shyshy :只會讓自己鬼打牆 也許他以後就會學著去接受 01/31 22:58

推 windgodvocx1:我期待他拿個人類學、社會學或政治哲學博士 01/31 22:59

推 hinenak :其實他講的話是真的有道理，不過太不實際了。 01/31 22:59

→ shadow0326 :爪定星天 01/31 22:59

推 lovecmgirls :真的~他講的話真的有道理..只可惜他就是有恐機症XD 01/31 23:00

→ spurs2120 :他根本腦子超清楚，比板上很多批評他的人清楚得多了 01/31 23:00

→ spurs2120 :結果看看上一篇（還有之前幾篇）被酸/罵成怎樣 01/31 23:01

→ spurs2120 :這正好顯示了很多人只要看到不合己意的就先罵再說。 01/31 23:01

推 oak2002 :他不適合nba 去打三三吧 完畢 01/31 23:04

推 ILLwill :我覺得他實在是想太多了,他頭腦是很聰明,但是講出來 01/31 23:04

→ ILLwill :缺乏系統. 01/31 23:05

推 teapot43 :自己繞著自己的想法走 別人怎樣講都沒用 01/31 23:05

推 vladmir :我要開始變成他的球迷了XD 01/31 23:05

推 afdm1234 :就是夜神月而已 01/31 23:06

→ ILLwill :最好是經過一些學術訓練會比較好 01/31 23:06

推 vinPHOENIX :他的狀況應該歸類在身心症 現在社會越來越普遍了 01/31 23:06

推 gaiaesque :不適合打NBA......可惜了 01/31 23:06

推 Rover :他發作時這麼嚴重還一直在twitter上放話也有問題吧? 01/31 23:06

推 JoshSmith :哲學家 聰明跟球風一樣 01/31 23:07

→ JoshSmith :無奈他會恐慌 加上聯盟不同意給他特例 01/31 23:07

推 ILLwill :他的狀況確實需要專門醫生吧,只是他的經紀人在搞啥 01/31 23:09

噓 blaukatze :怎麼想是一回事 怎麼做是另一回事 他的作法就是欠噓 01/31 23:09

→ ILLwill :不懂保護他的形象嗎 01/31 23:09

推 PiZ1129 :這種真麻煩,有一套合理的獨特見解. 01/31 23:09

→ blaukatze :不然看謝長廷馬英久宋楚瑜的電視訪問也都神的很啊 01/31 23:10

→ blaukatze :精神病本來就是DSM定義出來的 要說所有人都有精神病 01/31 23:13

→ blaukatze :也可以啊 只要列進去就行了 當年同性戀也是精神病啊 01/31 23:14

→ blaukatze :然後舉著精神病的大旗就可以隨意做嗎? 恐怖主義也是 01/31 23:15

→ blaukatze :為了要實現他們心中的公平正義啊 01/31 23:15

推 madeinheaven:原來是吸大麻才得精神病的 01/31 23:19

噓 WilliamChau :這人到底怎麼大學畢業的 01/31 23:19

→ PiZ1129 :談吐看來不笨阿.畢業不奇怪 01/31 23:20

推 kerogunpla :我幫他總結：反正都是THEY的錯 01/31 23:22

→ littlepigin :可是這社會性差到極點 很難團體生活吧 01/31 23:23

推 KAKU29 :老大最近得了愛傳球的精神病 01/31 23:23

推 turtleknight:恐怖主義其實是個空集合，其意義是美國的敵人 01/31 23:24

推 pikaq :他"太聰明"了... 人生笨笨的時常是個好事呀... 01/31 23:30

推 bhgkai :現實就是要妥協。你不妥協世界也不會繞著你轉 01/31 23:35

推 sungastill :連同前篇一同收入球員精華區~ 01/31 23:37

推 sungastill :感謝您無私地分享~ 01/31 23:37

推 smalwhite :Cheesecake factory是一家連鎖餐廳/甜點的名字:) 01/31 23:39

推 RAYBO :White, 你知道的太多了...難怪會得焦慮症... 01/31 23:46

推 sungastill :如果有更新內容，跟我說一下，我幫你重新收入~ 01/31 23:46

推 l998 :邏輯清晰 很聰明 01/31 23:48

→ l998 :我也要成為球迷了 01/31 23:49

推 smatt612ro :White "書"迷 +1 01/31 23:53

噓 shoray :這根本是謬論…他如果認為自己的健康有這麼重要的話 01/31 23:54

→ shoray :從一開始就不該加入NBA選秀。就像他自己講的，為什麼 01/31 23:55

→ shoray :球星受了得休三個月的傷必須要三個星期就上場=>不然 01/31 23:55

→ shoray :你以為老闆腦子有問題花個幾百萬鎂請你打籃球?這本來 01/31 23:56

→ shoray :就是職業運動的一部份，受不了的話從一開始就別踏進 01/31 23:56

→ shoray :來，健康的風險換來極高的收入、知名度，這本來就是 01/31 23:57

→ shoray :自己的選擇。 01/31 23:57

→ shoray :然後更鳥的是…火箭要求的只不過是讓他們的隊醫也能 01/31 23:57

→ shoray :參與療程，了解他的病情，這人自己打死不願意= =，現 01/31 23:58

→ shoray :在說「應該只能讓我自己專屬的醫生判斷」，幹，你擔 01/31 23:58

推 lightpisces :有誰要給他一本筆記本的嗎? 01/31 23:59

→ shoray :心拿球隊錢的隊醫陰你，球團最好不擔心拿你錢的醫生 01/31 23:59

→ shoray :醫球團… 01/31 23:59

→ shoray :陰* 01/31 23:59

推 kaj1983 :看完這篇，我不知道他是不是精神病，但我肯定他非常 02/01 00:00

→ kaj1983 :的奇怪，讓我想到當兵時遇到一個總是講一些奇怪論點 02/01 00:01

→ kaj1983 :的天兵= =，看起來像的頭頭是道，但都是廢話一堆@@ 02/01 00:01

→ autumned :感謝板主 我明天假如發了最後一部分在一起看看 02/01 00:09

→ autumned :有沒有要改^^" 02/01 00:09

推 wengna :就算世界與~我~為~敵~~~ 02/01 00:10

推 sungastill :OK~ 那就感謝原PO了~!! 02/01 00:11

推 dotZu :如果他能選擇一個不用四處旅行的行業，可能真的不錯 02/01 00:14

→ dotZu :可惜這NBA就是必須到處去表演的行業，而這對他較困難 02/01 00:15

推 Ellomorce :其實他的Argue是有道理的，以醫療社會學的立場看 02/01 00:18

→ Ellomorce :但是球團跟聯盟站在商業利益看也沒有錯 02/01 00:19

→ Ellomorce :有時候社會就是這樣，身心障礙者的權益本來就是 02/01 00:19

→ Ellomorce :透過這種方式爭取出來的 02/01 00:19

→ Ellomorce :所以這個拉鋸的過程本身很正常 02/01 00:20

推 SonAkali :Cheesecake factory是家很好吃的餐廳 02/01 00:26

推 ILLwill :我也覺得這沒甚麼不好,只是White需要下功夫在公關上 02/01 00:27

→ ILLwill :然後,要懂得做出讓步,比方去打幾場NBDL之類的,表示有 02/01 00:28

→ ILLwill :誠意,再來就是進一步的商討 02/01 00:28

→ ILLwill :總不能對於球團提出的任何要求相應不理,他既然有開拓 02/01 00:29

→ ILLwill :者的自命自覺,那麼還是要付點代價 02/01 00:29

推 DemonRing :大哲學家！ 02/01 00:37

推 volkov :邏輯對，不代表他有理 02/01 00:39

→ innominate :有些論點是合理,但是他一開始就把球團打成萬惡資方 02/01 00:47

→ innominate :所有替球團做事的人都會不顧球員的健康 02/01 00:47

→ innominate :這點才是衝突點,我不知道記者還是他迴避了這個問題 02/01 00:48

→ innominate :即使是ACL撕裂傷,球團介入治療也是很合理的 02/01 00:49

→ innominate :畢竟球團好歹也要能掌握球員的病情才能做出對應措施 02/01 00:49

→ innominate :不管是人員的調度甚至是交易 02/01 00:49

推 jojobigoldtw:為什麼我覺得很好笑XDDDD 哈哈哈 02/01 01:19

推 ul4fm4xk7 :我想知道他甚麼時候會被裁掉 02/01 01:34

推 goury :這真的不是邏輯問題。精神疾病患者平常跟正常人一樣 02/01 01:48

推 gotohikaru :看完兩篇 更確定他真的是病友 02/01 02:32

→ gotohikaru :這廢話NBA有一半以上的人講不出來 02/01 02:34

→ gotohikaru :會覺得是廢話 理解力也頗有問題 02/01 02:34

推 virus2007 :所以是吸大麻吸到腦袋壞掉吧..... 02/01 08:00

推 cutefennec :你想打nba嗎 你願意接受nba的工作嗎? 02/01 08:12

→ cutefennec :自己都說"自己"以為nba有精神疾病處理 02/01 08:15

→ cutefennec :這種想要求卻又不求證實際 反而自我解釋要求他人 02/01 08:17

→ cutefennec :與其說病友不如說自私無比 把思考建立在錯誤的基礎上 02/01 08:23

推 jorden :他比較像是活在自己世界的球員 都要按照他的規則走 02/01 08:24

推 volkov :邏輯顛三倒四的那已經是歇斯底里了，精神疾病更廣闊 02/01 08:34

推 yaguara :我確定RW是精神病患者沒錯...... 02/01 08:53

推 downtoearth :想挑戰整個制度 那要付出代價是一定的.. 02/01 09:16

推 micotosai :應該不是吸到腦袋壞掉，他是容易敏感的敏感太郎 02/01 09:16

推 OOpttcc :整個就是哲學系的咖.... 02/01 09:58

推 jonestem :因為多數人是愚蠢的，所以這社會並不適合過度聰明的 02/01 11:11

→ jonestem :具權勢者的生存... 02/01 11:12

推 semicoma :應然和實然分不清楚的例子 02/01 13:19

推 iswearxxx :借轉 感謝:) 02/01 16:44

推 ymcg :他適合去寫哲學書吧，去公園打打街頭籃球電中二就好 02/01 18:54

→ EvilDoom :Iowa State 是指 Iowa State University 02/02 02:03

推 WuZun :結論就是不要吸大麻就好了XDDDD 02/02 06:31

推 laiharvey :對他的話完全同意!!! 03/20 23:57

→ laiharvey :就像貪腐是政治的一部分 可能是很難避免的 03/20 23:59

→ laiharvey :但你還是會努力想減輕他 而不是輕易的接受他 03/21 00:00

推 jayelva :推樓上!!!!!!!!! 03/21 00:13